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hello all, i was just wondering if it would make my learning easier to build guitar parts in batches ,ex. necks,bridges, on pieces of scraps until i get the right technique to apply with good wood?

Would it be just a loss of time and should i rather follow a book and do the entire guitar at once?

Like most beginners i have a million questions and i'm confused a bit with all the wealth of info. coming from here and wouldn't want to annoy anyone here, so maybe could you tell me what made your life easier when you were a beginner. Since i feel that i'm at the best place on earth for learning, i really want a fresh start for my second and third build and could not do it without you all.

I just want to make it right and while you respond to me, i'll go back to my shop and try to get it well organized to make my life easier in there as well!

Thank you all in advance! Serge

Serge,

From a beginner here, the first one was just slow going, from building jigs to learning how everything fits together. For me now, I see that building in batches is the way to go, that way you cut several while the jig is out and it's fresh in your mind. I'm building 2 at a time right now and the proces is so much easier/quicker. It's all making sense and simple too.

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Gwaltney Guitars

Thanks Greg, this idea came to mind after leaving my messed up shop which doesn't help. I guess my shop was a reflect of my thoughts and this morning, figured out that it should be like a fine tuned spirit in a fit body! so this thought of building in batches came at the right time i guess. I better organize thi shop ASAP before it drives me bananas!

Serge

Hi Serge

Building in batches is definately more efficent, however one word of warning, when you are working out your designs and processes, you can make the same mistake many times, sometimes you need to get an instrument complete before you know what works and what doesn't.RussellR38727.5687847222

I would highly recommend when you are starting out to build one at a time for quite some time so as to avoid making a whole batch of mistakes. Consider that you build 5 necks and then try to mate them to 5 bodies and "oops I cut that angle wrong", well now I have 5 wrong angles. Or gee I overbuilt that one, now you won't know that till you have completed them all and strung them up.
If you do each one individually you can evaluate it and try to correct for it's shortcomings on the next, not so if you do them all together.
Better to do each and learn from each.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Serge

I think you are best to start with one guitar at a time or maybe 2 but no more. And I wouldn't cut parts for a bunch of guitar till you have a few under you belt.

I found that for my first 4-5 I often made fairly major design changes between guitars. You learn a lot on your first few builds and will likely find a lot of things you want to change on future instruments. If you cut parts now you may find yourself throwing them out because they will not be of any use to you when you change your design.

I have now been building for about 2 years and have made 15 or so instruments. I have finally come up with a number of designs I like as far as my bracing and appointments go. So I took a week at the end of Dec and cut all the pieces I will need for the coming year (bracing, blocks, for 10 guitars). There are still a few aspects of the design that I am not settled on so I leave those pieces and make them as I need them. Eventually you will want to get to this point, but I would not try and start out here.

As you gain confidence and come up with designs you like you can begin to do things in batches. This is the way it has worked for me. We can see what others have to say.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
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And try and make a point of keeping a clean shop. I try and take a few minutes at the end of the day to straighten things up. Then I usually take an hour or two on Saturday and do a good cleaning in preparation for the coming week. It is much more enjoyable working in a clean shop where you are not constantly tripping over stuff.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
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https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

What John How said. Learn what you're doing one at a time, then when you nail the essentials you can do a batch. Otherwise, you will repeat the same mistakes in each one. That's not the best way to learn. Go slow. Allow yourself lots of time to learn. There are very few good shortcuts with the learning process.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Simple answer FOR NEWBIES is no! You will just end up duplicating the same errors in multiples.

A little off topic but, it is also to very important to keep a detailed journal as you build. This may be your greatest learning tool. But you must be religious about keeping it. With out it you are likly to find it very hard to repeat success and very easy to repeat mitakesMichaelP38727.6092013889

I am just starting to build from scratch and just completed my first two boxes. Although I am building these two at the same time, I complete a step on one, analyze what went well, what went wrong, make modifications to the process, and then perform the process on the second one. I have done some "batch processing" of parts however. I roughed out several tail and neck blocks for instance, and rough cut all the bracing for both guitars while the kerfed lining was drying. Like other folks have said here, I didn't want to get too far ahead and find that I've messed up a bunch of material! That being said, as my comfort level increases, I will most definitely build in batches, particularly as my designs get refined to the point where I don't feel the need to tweak them too much any more. Just seems more efficient to me...


EDIT: Oh yeah - I keep copious notes!
-Mark
Mark Tripp38727.607337963

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The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

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What everybody else said. It's called prototyping. Build a few, one at a time, and get the bugs worked out, before building parts in quantity.

Over the years (I only built a guitar this past year) I've learned the hard way that the state of my shop will dictate how I work. If it's neat and clean, so goes the work. If not, my peace of mind suffers and so does the work. I also find it helpful to focus on what I'm doing in the moment -- as if to say "I am working on the neck today" -- rather than on the goal, such as "I'm going to get the neck done today." Of course, if you're a pro, you may not have that luxury if you're working to a deadline.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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The first time I batch built I made a number of blunders. Why? Because I was building 2 different designs, and ended up taking the neck for guitar #1, and cutting it to fit guitar #2, etc. I just wasn't used to dealing with that sort of inventory issue, having only built singles before, and it took a bit of time to stop from just reaching for "the neck" when I wanted to do neck work for a specific guitar.

As others have made reference to, I will shine a light on it.

Not only would I NOT build batches, and do them one at a time. I would additionally concentrate on building the same model over, and over, and over, and over again until I felt like I had a good understanding of the geometry and how small changes (wood choice, subtle changes in bracing, etc.) affected the finished product.

I think that is the ideal scenario. I know it is tempting to build a lot of different varieties of guitars (I suffer from it too). But my best sounding guitars are the ones where I have the most experience with that particular model.

just my .02 worth. I am sure others will disagree.Brock Poling38727.6971180556

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Man, you guys really helped me on that one.

After reading you all, i think i'll do this:

1) Get that shop clean and organized as to where jigs, tools and wood will work for me best.

2) work on no more than i guitar at a time very slowly and keeping in a detailed journal

3) Practice on scrap first, measure twice cut once,

4) Remind myself that you guys are always there to help

5)Wisdom calls for baby steps in my case Right?

Thanks, proud and lucky to be here

Serge

It is what we are here for

The true measure of the craftsman's soul is the sum of all he has learned multiplied by all he has taught.

Thanks also Brock, love this idea too, as i am redoing the dreadnaught again. The only variation that i might add to no2 and 3 would be a venitian cutaway.

Only this time, even though still passionate about building, i'll try to really dig deeper as to what to do and how to do it best. Feels like i have no deadline on it now and just want to achieve better craftmanship in every detail. After seeing what Bill N. did on his second and third build so far, it encourages me to be patient towards my goals!

Serge

Thanks Michael,

i've only been here since dec. 25th and every time i login here i'm just overwhelmed with all the information flying around on every subject and feel really lucky to be here at this time in my endeavour, not that it's gonna save me from doing mistakes but sure will help me prevent a million of them with this group's wisdom watchin' over my shoulder!

Serge

What Brock said is exactly what I plan on doing. Since I play mostly bluegrass, I'm building nothing but dreads. My guitar teacher plays a Proulx, so I have the good fortune of hearing what a truly remarkable dread sounds like!

I've also decided not to try a bunch of different woods on these - I've settled on Mahogany and Sitka, and EIR and Carpathian . This way, like Brock said, I can get a better feel for how changes in geometry, bracing, etc. effect the tone of the guitar.

-Mark
Mark Tripp38727.7263194444

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Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
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Serge ya gona make bobos even with our help. but keep track of them in your journal when they happen and their not likly to sneak-up on you as often

I asked the same thing before diving into the deep end, and most everyone said the same thing: build one at a time for a while, then 'batch' build when you've nailed a design/found something you like. And it works fine. You want to be able to see where certain choices led you/how they worked out, and be able to change them on the next instruments.

This said, after I finihs #2, numbers 3, 4 and 5 will be built concurrently. They are, however, all different models; one will be the same size/shape as the previous two, two will be new. I'll stagger the start, but having several projects is fun, because while one's in clamps, you can move to the next one. F'r instance. Just make sure you take notes on what you're doing, and remember what guitar you're working on!

If you're unsure of a procedure or how to use a tool, practice on scrap. Then just use a decent piece of wood for the real thing; you don't have to build your first instruments out of brazillian or high-figure anything; a fairly plain-jane looking set of mahogany, EIR (best for bending), Walnut, Cherry will give you just as great a sound, if not a better sound, than a highly figured set.

Yeah Michael, i've already learned the hard way on the first one, starting from scratch and thinking i was gonna make a living out of it within 6 months!


SergeSerge Poirier38727.9410300926

[QUOTE=MichaelP]
A little off topic but, it is also to very important to keep a detailed journal as you build. [/QUOTE]
Great point Michael. I didn't keep a written diary but I DID write all over my plans with specific nuances and all over the written instructions that came with my first kit. It helps with subsequent builds even when using different build techniques, sizes etc.

I'm currently building number 2, but after this one I plan on throwing caution to the wind and head down a path of reckless abondon by building 2 at once! I may regret this later when I screw up 2 guitars at the same time instead of just one, but that's just me. I have even been known to walk very quickly with a pair of scissors in my hands! Shhhhhh!! Don't tell my mother.

Alan, you should see my dread plan, i think that a chinese person could understand what's on it better than me!

Graham , you should see me around a bandsaw, horror movies are for teens compare to that!

Serge

Thanks as well Mattia , gonna sure do just that, refining as i build no 2 and then no 3 for my parents who encouraged me at a young age to play guitar. i want those 2 to have a great sound and also good looking, worth the wait even if it means more than a year!